My guest today is Peep Laja of ConversionXL. Peep got started in the marketing world in 2011 when he grew his blog to 100,000 monthly visitors in just a year. Since that time, he’s become known as one of the foremost experts in the world of CRO. This interview is jam packed with actionable CRO tips you can try on your website.


Don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes!




Original Excitement

  • “I wanted to start a marketing blog.”
  • Estonia –> Dubai –> Panama
  • “We need what you offer but we don’t need anyone full time.”
  • “I’m an SEO company now!”


  • “I did not know what the product would be.”
  • “The next time I start a business, I’ll build an audience first.”
  • “Long form content was getting the most backlinks and social shares.”
  • “It was easier to standout in 2011.  Today you need to do even better.”

Starting a Blog in 2016

  • “I would focus on something hard and time consuming that nobody is doing.”
  • “Look at topics that have a high barrier of entry.”
  • 16-18 hours per blog post
  • “I have two full-time writers.”
  • “We map-out our content a month in advance.”


  • “The foundation of CRO is research.”
  • “Conversion optimization is not writing the right headline or making buttons larger.”
  • “In the end it’s about what’s driving business growth.”
  • The difference (between using pop-ups or not) is so huge.”

Money Leaks

  • “The value proposition is missing.”
  • “Look at your top three landing pages and make sure you explain what, who, and why above the fold.”
  • “Double-down on sources that convert better.”

Page Type Advice

  • E-commerce product pages
  • “Color use is relative to the page.”
  • Home pages
  • Blog/Article pages

Eye Tracking/Biometric Testing

  • How does it work?
  • Viewing in an ‘F’ pattern is no longer the case …”

ConversionXL Institute

  • It’s an on-demand self-serve learning course
  • “Learning always takes the backseat …”
About Dan Shure

Hi! I'm Dan Shure. I write all of the posts and host all of the podcast episodes you'll find on the Evolving SEO blog. Say hello on Twitter @dan_shure!


  • February 25, 2017 Reply


    I would love to see some more current eye tracking studies. Around 6 years ago amazon and some others published some data that has influenced my design since.

    Thanks for trying to talk about pop-up’s from a open mind. I know what the studies show, still feels wrong. I can’t bring myself to do it. Google is starting to crack down on it, so I would be-careful about using that tactic.

    Who is click on this pop-ups, please stop.

    Thanks for the another great show.

    • February 26, 2017 Reply

      Dan Shure

      Yes I think we all know, deep down, pop ups don’t serve the user or their needs. I always assume “if someone wants to sign up, get newsletters, etc – they’ll pro-actively LOOK for a signup form”. I’ve never thought the user we’ve tricked into signing up for something is the best user. Thanks for another nice comment 🙂

  • June 7, 2018 Reply


    Thanks for another great podcast

    • June 7, 2018 Reply

      Dan Shure

      thanks for listening!

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